[Music]
It's the speech, the issue he's been
building up to all summer.
An expensive set and a vast hanger
spelling out the policy. The flights
will be only one way if Reform UK stride
into power. The Conservatives vowed to
stop the boats, labor to smash the
gangs. Reform UK today revealing their
plan to tackle the small boat crisis.
The only way
we will stop the boats
is by detaining and deporting absolutely
anyone that comes via that route. And if
we do that,
the boats will stop coming within days.
>> That will require building detention
centers for 24,000 people, centers which
people would not be allowed to leave.
reform would offer payments to countries
like Afghanistan to enhance signing up
to a returns policy. And to enable it
all,
>> we have to leave the ECR.
We have to repeal the Human Rights Act.
We will for a 5-year period disapply the
1951
Refugee Convention and any other
barriers.
>> This isn't just a crisis, say reform.
They described it as this. What other
word could possibly describe what has
been going on? It is an invasion as
these young men illegally break into our
country.
>> In all, reforms say these policies would
cost 10 billion pounds, but that's not
the number they're concerned most with.
There have been a record number of
people who claimed asylum in the past
year, more than 111,000.
Under Labor, forced returns are coming
back up. In the year ending in June,
there were just over 9,000, an increase
of 25% on the previous year. But those
numbers are dwarfed by the number of
people arriving by small boats. More
than 50,000 in the last 12 months since
Labour took power. Yet more people who
were prepared to risk their lives
arriving to the UK today. Yesterday, 659
people arrived on nine boats. This is a
crisis successive governments have been
fighting the tide on. A short while
after Nigel Farah left the stage, the
prime minister felt the need to post
these pictures on social media with the
message, if you come to this country
illegally, you will face detention and
return. As for the Tories, imitation is
the sincerest form of flattery. The fact
is Nigel Farage is copying our homework.
We put out a deportation bill in May.
The stuff that actually works in what he
said has come from there. Illegal
migration though is a political win that
seems to favor reform even in
traditionally Labor seats like the Home
Secretary's constituency in West
Yorkshire.
>> I wouldn't vote for him, but
some of his ideas are right.
>> Don't get me wrong, I'm not racist,
but how many people have we got on
streets here as own people queuing up at
food banks and that and they just
they're coming over in a dingy.
>> I think that's a good idea. Donald
Trump's done it.
>> It's just evil, mate. It's just evil.
It's It's fascism. Fascism is on the
rise.
>> Beyond the rhetoric, though, there are
potentially devastating realworld
consequences. There is a realistic
possibility that if you go forward with
this, there might be a case where
someone arrives in the UK by a small
boat, you send them back to the country
from which they came, and they will be
tortured or killed because of a decision
that you've made. How does that sit with
you?
>> Well, the alternative of course is to do
nothing. I mean, that's the very clear
alternative is we just do nothing. We
just allow this problem to magnify and
grow. We cannot be responsible for all
the sins that take place around the
world. It's just literally impossible.
>> Is it impossible? Are they can they do
what they're what they're saying?
>> Well, but look, Parliament is sovereign,
but we have checks and balances under
English common law. Yeah. This is the
basis of being English. You know, John
sir John Foriscu in 1417 in praise of
the laws of England said torture is
against the common law. So to be able to
you can't legislate against the common
law in such a way which will rip up the
English constitution. I'm sure reform
party members would not want to do that
as well.
>> If we get to the point where we have an
Nigel Farage um government and they do
what they say they would do,
>> the courts will intervene.
This morning, Nigel Farage painted a
picture that sounded incredibly simple
for a crisis that has proved anything
but to the governments of the last
decade. The power of not being in power,
though, to be judged more on your
rhetoric than your results.
>> Well, shortly before we came on air, I
spoke to the Home Office Minister Lord
Hansen, and I asked him what he made of
Nigel Farage's plans.
>> His plans are are quite simply, Kathy,
off the wall. They're not deliverable.
they're not supportable and they're not
things that we can actually uh from a
government perspective deliver on or
support. He is making plans which would
mean that we're spending money that we
haven't got on things that we can't
deliver and deporting people back to
countries which they've escaped from and
have claimed asylum for and which will
be, you know, sending people back, women
and children particularly, to countries
like Afghanistan where there's going to
be great danger to them and to their
children. But
>> some people have heard echoes of the
National Front in the 1970s. Do you
share that recollection?
>> Well, I'm not going to get into whether
Nigel Farage equals the National Front.
The key thing for me is we need a
>> Well, we we need a deliverable plan. I'm
not in the business of making sound
bites for four years hence. I'm in the
business of trying to deliver effective
plans for this government to achieve
change on some of the real issues that
we've inherited from the past
government. But the reason why you're
not going there is it is it because
you're worried that in order to call him
far right, you're calling some of the
country far right?
>> No. No. Nigel Farage can speak for
himself. I will call him far right. I
think he's a farright activist who's
stirring up trouble and not having a
deliverable plan. What I'm about is
trying to deliver effective plans to
deal with the real challenges that we've
got on asylum, on illegal migration, and
on ensuring that we have the confidence
of the British people to do that. That's
what we're about.
>> And you've been in power for a year now,
over a year now. And the truth is that
successive governments, including the
last Conservative government, but then
before that, the last Labor
administration that you were a part of,
have failed to listen to the public and
deliver on promises on immigration. Do
you accept that?
>> Well, there's several aspects of
immigration. What we're trying to look
at is first of all, we've got an
immigration white paper looking at how
we can meet skills and develop British
skills and develop our need for imported
skills. That's one aspect of
immigration. The second is small boats
and illegal migration. That's really
important. And we've got measures in the
immigration bill. We've taken measures
with France. We've put extra powers to
the border command to try to deal with
that to criminalize those actions even
further. And then the third aspect is
trying to speed up and effectively
manage the asylum system, which the
previous government didn't do. So we put
extra staff in there to speed up and
make sure we look at asylum claims in an
effective way. And as a result of all of
that as a result,
>> I just I just wonder Yeah. I just wonder
whether you accept that currently the
government is failing on this because
that is what the polling suggests the
public thinks. Do you share that
criticism?
>> No, I I I think there there are real
challenges and there are real criticisms
and I accept those. But what what we've
got is a strong work in progress to try
to deliver some change. It's not a
simple easy fix which you know Farage
would think it is. So, do you heed David
Blunkett, for example, and others
calling for a suspension, a temporary
suspension of European treaties like the
European Convention on Human Rights? Is
that something that's under
consideration?
>> Well, if you look at the immigration
bill, Kathy, uh we've already put in
place in the immigration bill, currently
gone through the House of Commons,
currently in the House of Lords,
measures to review article 8 of the uh
European Convention on Human Rights, the
right to family life to ensure that
there is a further refinement of that.
But we have to maintain our
international obligations because the
ECHR has fundamental human rights that
you and I uh would like to keep and
share and which have been fought for
since the end of the Second World War.
It's a slow process. I accept. It leads
to frustrations. I accept. But I'm
asking people generally as we are of the
government to look at the record of this
government at its completion. It's very
simple you for far to talk about four
years hence. In four years time, we hope
to have shut all hotels, reduce the
asylum backlog significantly, and have
taken action very strongly to
criminalize and end the crossings that
are taking place now.
>> Lord Hansen, thanks very much.
>> Thank you, Shafi.
>> Well, Gane Toller has worked with Nigel
Farage for many years and a few days ago
was elected to the party's
decision-making board and he joins me
now. going to paying autocrats, locking
up women and children, ripping up
Britain's post-war treaties which are
enshrined in in British law.
>> I mean, are you just stoking a rather
nasty kind of bigotry? Actually,
>> no. What has created the disquite on our
streets and what we senping and
elsewhere is decades of lies or
failures? Maybe they meant it when they
said a cap of tens of thousands. Maybe
they meant it when they said smash the
gangs. Maybe they meant it. They
believed they could. But what has
created the disqu and the anger on the
streets is decades of politicians saying
one thing and failing. And not just
failing. In the case of the Tories, the
Boris wave failing with boosters.
>> It's like we're going to get tens of
thousand, 20,000, 50,000. Oh, let's get
a million.
>> Okay. So, let's talk about that.
>> That's that's why people are angry.
>> But let's talk about the very angry
language that you're using today. I
mean, I'm sure you've seen this 1970s
poster knocking about today. I hadn't,
but okay.
>> Right. Make Britain great again.
>> Stop immigration. Start repatriation. I
mean, it's a national front leaflet, but
it could be yours, couldn't it?
>> And and you've got Graeme Stringer,
Labour MP, saying leave the ECR. That's
the
things back in the 70s or whatever,
Blair Peach period or something of this
sort. We were talking about we literally
were talking tens of thousands. And the
average between 47 and 97 of people
arriving on these shores was under
50,000 people. So that kind of mind okay
now I would say okay then
>> what is okay what is not okay now is the
current situation the complete change
the the delivery of falsehood by on the
parts of our of our leadership of our
governments of our parties what you have
had time and time and time again is
promises and one
>> but does that make it okay to speak the
language of the far right
>> well to deport people who arrive here
illegally is that far right
>> actually your your leader is Blunk.
David Blunk. No, I'll come on to David
Blunk in a minute, but your leader is
talking about deporting children who
were born in the UK, the children of
illegal migrants. Do you support that?
>> In the end, that is their choice. If I'm
deporting adults, if I'm deporting the
adults, I would hope that the adults
will want their children to go with
them. I would hope. We would like to
see, and he makes it very clear during
today's press conference, that a lot of
this becomes voluntary. If we say you
cannot come here illegally and we will
detain and deport you, then that is the
only way to stop the boats and we know
and you know and everybody else knows
that we've had a 50% increase in that
way of tr crossing the channel and that
way of arriving here under Labor. The
only way to do that is not to smash the
gangs because if there are still
incentives for people to come, the gangs
will pop up like hydra. But you're
talking about deporting British
citizens. You know, children who were
born here, you know, they haven't got
any of
>> the anchor baby idea and all the rest of
it. I I Well, I'm sorry. The parents do
have to take some responsibility for
their own children, do they not? But
you're not uneasy about this kind of
>> Look, I would love this country to go
back to its traditional way of always
being welcoming to those in trouble
around the world. But the system has
been ripped the mick out of by so much
and to such a degree that the native
decency of our people has broken and
that is not their fault. That is the
fault of the politicians. Let's talk
about decency then because how do you
think this sounds to a member of the
Windrush generation or someone
or Eratraa who's who's facing torture or
even death?
>> We are not responsible for the whole
world's problems. We are responsible for
the people of this country. How does
somebody who served our country and is
living on the streets feel about the
hostels and the hotels being provided
for people who arrived here on the boat?
We don't know who they are. They are
undocumented. In some cases, they've
been arrested for alleged uh uh
terrorist activities. And yet, our own
servicemen still, ex-servicemen, still
sleep on the streets. How do they feel?
Those are the people I care about. I'm
sorry. I don't care about the whole
world. I cannot. My heart is not big
enough.
>> Gane Tola, thank you very much. Thank
you.